Asking for Advice about a Friend in Need

[Vacule]

Use all of the advice just given to you and pick the one you feel most comftourable with then try to help your friend.

 

[bad2020]

First, personally, I would not try to influence her decision too much. It is fine if you want to help her but if you talk her into a choice then she may end up to regret. Reminder her that the choice is hers and that whichever path she chooses won't matter as long as she is happy. If you are a good friend, her religious beliefs should not affect your relationship and you should tell her that. She should feel confident in whatever belief she chooses. If you can't make the decision and be certain that one choice is better than the other, then she should wait to make the decision. Most belief systems have the ability to change religions which even though you should use if you feel the need, should not be abused. I believe that if you do not think that you are going to stick with that belief you shouldn't have chosen it.

TLR Tell her to choose what she feels is right and remind her that the decision does not have to be made now and she has opportunities in the future to choose.

 

[BitoBain]

Thanks guys! I'm getting the vibe that I should really leave the decision up to her and just be supportive. Good to know! That's why I ask.

Seriously:
She
is
a
teen
Tell her to wait till shes 18 to make that decision when puberty and all the drama will be over.
Wanting to change your religion when you're 14 is honestly idiotic...

She will be 18 in a few months, by the way. She is nearing adulthood.

But even if she was younger, that wouldn't prohibit her from making decisions about her life. A huge portion of people on earth know what they want to do with their life by their early teenage years, whether that be a career or a lifestyle. Hormones associated with teenagehood are always a part of a person's life, and they aren't an excuse for a type of behavior or a poor decision. Teens can and do think logically; it's only stereotypes that lead people to think otherwise. Drama, too, is always part of a person's life. It doesn't suddenly decrease when you turn 18. For many, drama increases at that age. Also, you act like changing religion is a permanent decision, when in most cases you can go back.

You make quite a few assumptions about this life you know so little about. I'm not sure what happened. You used to make such great, thoughtful posts in the good old days...

P.S. Sorry I didn't give more context, though. That's on me.

 

[HomeGoods]

All I can say is that I agree with all these responses.

 

[Ceroria]

Well, coming from the opinion of a Christian (myself) I'd personally encourage her to continue what she believes in, especially if she has a strong belief in God. But all in all we have the free will to make our own decisions, and if she doesn't want to follow her religion anymore then she, technically, can give it up. But coming from someone like me, it'd be hard to go against the grain of your life. I have lots of friends from church, which I am really close to which I'm sure she may have too, and a change like that may skew her relationships which she may not want.

Something like this, she really needs to evaluate herself, look at both sides of the decision, and make that decision.

If I were to talk to her myself I'd say that she should evaluate where she is with God, and if she really is rooted in believing in him or if she's just going along with things. If she never had any strong ties to begin with, maybe it would be better to break it off (or if she wants to pursue Christianity more, maybe find ways to do that)

Ultimately, I encourage her to follow Christianity. For those who say it's "ignorance" I very much beg to differ. With the exception of a few things, there are no major clashes with science and religion. I mean, we're not living in the 14th century, a religious person doesn't have to deny certain scientific principles because the world is chock full of grey areas that nobody really understands.

Follow your heart, and you'll end up in the right place.

 

[Syle]

Well, coming from the opinion of a Christian (myself) I'd personally encourage her to continue what she believes in, especially if she has a strong belief in God. But all in all we have the free will to make our own decisions, and if she doesn't want to follow her religion anymore then she, technically, can give it up. But coming from someone like me, it'd be hard to go against the grain of your life. I have lots of friends from church, which I am really close to which I'm sure she may have too, and a change like that may skew her relationships which she may not want.

Something like this, she really needs to evaluate herself, look at both sides of the decision, and make that decision.

If I were to talk to her myself I'd say that she should evaluate where she is with God, and if she really is rooted in believing in him or if she's just going along with things. If she never had any strong ties to begin with, maybe it would be better to break it off (or if she wants to pursue Christianity more, maybe find ways to do that)

Ultimately, I encourage her to follow Christianity. For those who say it's "ignorance" I very much beg to differ. With the exception of a few things, there are no major clashes with science and religion. I mean, we're not living in the 14th century, a religious person doesn't have to deny certain scientific principles because the world is chock full of grey areas that nobody really understands.

Follow your heart, and you'll end up in the right place.

Yes , finally , I finally waited for this moment......


Im the first guy who liked ur comment

Goals achieved

 

[Mamiamato24]

Deciding what religion you associate yourself with is something that should be done on a personal level. Ultimately, the only things that should be useful to her are unbiased facts. She has to figure out, herself, her religious standpoint, since we all may have different beliefs. She needs to evaluate herself and decide if she truly believes in what I Christianity entails. If she's beginning to doubt them, it's probably a sign that she's drifting away from Christianity. And wherever this drift takes her, is where she needs to be.

Personally, I identify as more or less an atheist nowadays after some occurrences that have happened in my life, specifically when it comes to praying. I realized that no matter how much my family prayed, bad things would always come our way. If God really did care about us, why did He let this happen to us?
Along with other influences, like beginning not to care about church, and just generally questioning if I actually believe or care to believe in any of the stuff I've learned in catechism. Turns out, I didn't.

 

[Mooclan]

A post from Bito?
I think that calls for me to peek up from my hibernation den of..hibernation. Canada!


I'm currently in a similar situation: a teen-aged Christian who is questioning their beliefs.
In my case, it's because my mom drags me (pretty much against my will, except they have awesome free food) to a super-hardcore church, like you wouldn't believe. I won't get into too many details, but there are some critics who label it almost as a cult - that's how intense it is.

Emotionally, we want to follow our wanderlust (sorry, I've been waiting to use that term for a few days) and explore the other options of things such as atheism. But at the same time, our logic tells us that we'll suffer emotionally in another way if we change our path, because of the reaction that it will evoke from our family and friends.

Now, of course you know her situation better than any of us on the forums. My initial advice to you concerning her would be to be tolerant of whichever choice she makes.
If she wants to stay in church, either long-term or just for now, do your best to support it. If you can't in good conscience be proactive in supporting that, then at the very least try to avoid making her want to change her decision. (Unless there's a unique circumstance that I'm unaware of.)
On the other hand, if she chooses to turn her back on her family's religion, then I'm assuming you'll be able to support and stand by her, as someone who has taken the same steps.

I can tell that you're writing from an atheist's point of view:

There's also the comfort of just belonging to a religion. Ignorance is often bliss. But if she moves on to something else, such as atheism, I believe she will be closer to the real truth about the universe, which is what our fundamental belief systems are about.

so I'll try to give the other side first.

Christianity, in particular, is a religion that in many denominations counts on real-life occurrences to maintain and increase the faith of the believers. In other words, miracles.
Here's a few examples of something that most people would agree is miracle-like or otherwise inexplicable except through some form of divinity. These happened to my family.

• When I was born, my mother had a vision of a hand grabbing me by the ankle and trying to emerge into the world by hanging onto me. Days later, she looked at my ankle and saw a large birthmark (1 inch tall, 0.5 inches wide) that I still have to this day.
• My mom, when she was a young teenager, wished for a house with a white picket fence and three tropical-looking kids, born in girl-boy-girl order. Lo and behold, for several years we owned a large 1.6 acre property surrounded entirely with a pristine white picket fence. Additionally, I'm the only son and I have both an older and younger sister. On top of that, we all have Hawaiian-looking complexions.
• My aunt, after seeing my older sister and I, prayed for my mom to have another child - the next day, my mom called her and said that she was pregnant again.
• A vision of my father, when my mom was only 10 or 11 years old.
• A (verifiable) prediction that my parents would be separated for a number of years around the time that my mom reached the age of 40. Exactly 11 days after my mom turned 40, my dad flew to Asia and was arrested (but not officially declared guilty), and we didn't see him for the next 2 years.
• My mom received a donation that amounted to $5,000 USD after I had to go to the hospital for a near-death experience, and the hospital bills came to $4,500, and she was not able to pay it on her own.
• In the summer of 2013, I was at a church camp. Towards the end of the camp, I had a particular prayer that was virtually impossible, by almost any standard - the same day that the camp came to a conclusion, my request came true. (It was a bit embarrassing, so I can't say what it was except in PMs)

I should probably clarify that I'm not trying to preach, cause controversy (well, not in this post..), incite harassment, flame wars, or cause hate.

8. Do not start argue/flame wars: We want to keep the community peaceful; a place where people are free to have opinions and discuss things. Arguments ruin discussions and are unnecessary.

Example:

1. Your opinion is stupid.
2. This idea is just stupid.
3. User 1: Your ideas are bad and you’re a hacker!
   User 2: No you’re a hacker!
   Staff: Stop arguing.
   Users: No!

• The difference between an argument and a discussion is that a discussion has valid points provided by each sides debating. An argument is a pointless disagreement where sides repeatedly claim the opposing side is wrong without any explanation or validation.
• Flaming/trolling threads are not allowed as they may cause arguments.
• If a staff member says to stop arguing, you must stop.
• Controversial topics that may incite harassment, flame wars, or hate crimes are not allowed. This includes discussion of religion and politics.

These are relevant examples to my perspective on the topic that have personally affected me and caused me to stay as a Christian. And although my faith undergoes trials and points of weakness, and I may doubt my mother's denomination of choice, I still have enough personal evidence to keep bringing me back to Christianity.



If your friend is going to overall benefit from maintaining and upholding her faith, then I'm of the opinion that that is the best path to take.

If she stays with her current religion, I think she will live an overall happier life

However, she can also take her own path - straying from the religion for a period, satisfying her curiosity, and then coming back (or, not!). Although I probably shouldn't be recommending this, since I myself claim to be a Christian (Oh, I'm sure Giggums would love to yell at me over this. By the way, Ryan, you were wrong! I did more research, and you were flat out wrong about your biggest point! Geez!) but oh well.

In a situation like this, outside sources shouldn't (generally) try to aim their perspective. Parents are a primary exception, usually. Friends, on the other hand, should typically let them decide for themselves, but it might be tough/impractical/situational. Decisions like this can change, make, or break the entire person's future.

 

[BitoBain]

A post from Bito?
I think that calls for me to peek up from my hibernation den of..hibernation. Canada!


I'm currently in a similar situation: a teen-aged Christian who is questioning their beliefs.
In my case, it's because my mom drags me (pretty much against my will, except they have awesome free food) to a super-hardcore church, like you wouldn't believe. I won't get into too many details, but there are some critics who label it almost as a cult - that's how intense it is.

Emotionally, we want to follow our wanderlust (sorry, I've been waiting to use that term for a few days) and explore the other options of things such as atheism. But at the same time, our logic tells us that we'll suffer emotionally in another way if we change our path, because of the reaction that it will evoke from our family and friends.

Now, of course you know her situation better than any of us on the forums. My initial advice to you concerning her would be to be tolerant of whichever choice she makes.
If she wants to stay in church, either long-term or just for now, do your best to support it. If you can't in good conscience be proactive in supporting that, then at the very least try to avoid making her want to change her decision. (Unless there's a unique circumstance that I'm unaware of.)
On the other hand, if she chooses to turn her back on her family's religion, then I'm assuming you'll be able to support and stand by her, as someone who has taken the same steps.

I can tell that you're writing from an atheist's point of view:

so I'll try to give the other side first.

Christianity, in particular, is a religion that in many denominations counts on real-life occurrences to maintain and increase the faith of the believers. In other words, miracles.
Here's a few examples of something that most people would agree is miracle-like or otherwise inexplicable except through some form of divinity. These happened to my family.

• When I was born, my mother had a vision of a hand grabbing me by the ankle and trying to emerge into the world by hanging onto me. Days later, she looked at my ankle and saw a large birthmark (1 inch tall, 0.5 inches wide) that I still have to this day.
• My mom, when she was a young teenager, wished for a house with a white picket fence and three tropical-looking kids, born in girl-boy-girl order. Lo and behold, for several years we owned a large 1.6 acre property surrounded entirely with a pristine white picket fence. Additionally, I'm the only son and I have both an older and younger sister. On top of that, we all have Hawaiian-looking complexions.
• My aunt, after seeing my older sister and I, prayed for my mom to have another child - the next day, my mom called her and said that she was pregnant again.
• A vision of my father, when my mom was only 10 or 11 years old.
• A (verifiable) prediction that my parents would be separated for a number of years around the time that my mom reached the age of 40. Exactly 11 days after my mom turned 40, my dad flew to Asia and was arrested (but not officially declared guilty), and we didn't see him for the next 2 years.
• My mom received a donation that amounted to $5,000 USD after I had to go to the hospital for a near-death experience, and the hospital bills came to $4,500, and she was not able to pay it on her own.
• In the summer of 2013, I was at a church camp. Towards the end of the camp, I had a particular prayer that was virtually impossible, by almost any standard - the same day that the camp came to a conclusion, my request came true. (It was a bit embarrassing, so I can't say what it was except in PMs)

I should probably clarify that I'm not trying to preach, cause controversy (well, not in this post..), incite harassment, flame wars, or cause hate.



These are relevant examples to my perspective on the topic that have personally affected me and caused me to stay as a Christian. And although my faith undergoes trials and points of weakness, and I may doubt my mother's denomination of choice, I still have enough personal evidence to keep bringing me back to Christianity.



If your friend is going to overall benefit from maintaining and upholding her faith, then I'm of the opinion that that is the best path to take.

However, she can also take her own path - straying from the religion for a period, satisfying her curiosity, and then coming back (or, not!). Although I probably shouldn't be recommending this, since I myself claim to be a Christian (Oh, I'm sure Giggums would love to yell at me over this. By the way, Ryan, you were wrong! I did more research, and you were flat out wrong about your biggest point! Geez!) but oh well.

In a situation like this, outside sources shouldn't (generally) try to aim their perspective. Parents are a primary exception, usually. Friends, on the other hand, should typically let them decide for themselves, but it might be tough/impractical/situational. Decisions like this can change, make, or break the entire person's future.

Yes, a post from Mooclan!

I'll certainly take your advice of supporting her no matter what. I think it is wrong to try to control someone's life with something like this, even though it may sound like I was going to in the OP. (hehe)

Well anyway, I think that miracles are an interesting topic. I find them amazing. I've even seen a few myself. For example, I predicted my dad's passing away (which was completely unexpected) three days before it happened in a journal entry. Then I've heard many from religious friends.

But surprisingly, I've found that miracles aren't a major factor in whether someone stays in a religion. Miracles do seem to happen to people of all religions, and Christians specifically tend to believe that miracles are a result of faith rather than something that makes faith. Rather, I have a more selfish view of religion. I think people tend to stick to the beliefs that benefit themselves and loved ones rather than what's actually true. So as I've pondered this problem, I've leaned toward enlightening her to stick to what will probably make her happier. (but not forcing her or anything) However, this is all just my opinion, and I imagine pretty much everyone disagrees with me haha.

My personal beliefs have come to be based off of the fact that religions make impossible and contradicting statements, and that God is unknowable. In a discussion recently with Tenebrous, we decided that it was impossible for God to be either all-knowing or all-powerful. However, it is possible for him to be all-powerful with respect to all things that are by definition possible, so I guess it depends on how you define it. This quote by C.S. Lewis is a great explanation of the "all-powerful" argument.

"His Omnipotence means power to do all that is intrinsically possible, not to do the intrinsically impossible. You may attribute miracles to him, but not nonsense. This is no limit to his power. If you choose to say 'God can give a creature free will and at the same time withhold free will from it,' you have not succeeded in saying anything about God: meaningless combinations of words do not suddenly acquire meaning simply because we prefix to them the two other words 'God can.'... It is no more possible for God than for the weakest of his creatures to carry out both of two mutually exclusive alternatives; not because his power meets an obstacle, but because nonsense remains nonsense even when we talk it about God."

 

[Tenebrous]

But all in all we have the free will

Nope

With the exception of a few things, there are no major clashes with science and religion. I mean, we're not living in the 14th century, a religious person doesn't have to deny certain scientific principles because the world is chock full of grey areas that nobody really understands.

Then why does this exist? https://answersingenesis.org/

Not going to rant at mooclan because I don't want this to turn to flame.

Well anyway, I think that miracles are an interesting topic. I find them amazing. I've even seen a few myself. For example, I predicted my dad's passing away (which was completely unexpected) three days before it happened in a journal entry. Then I've heard many from religious friends.

Wow you must have physic powers! Let's win $1,000,000 by demonstrating them!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge

oh wait

 

[Jusser]

Then why does this exist? https://answersingenesis.org/

Because some people unfortunately take religious texts out of context. The bible's job isn't to dictate science, its more of a historical text. Thousands of years ago people believed that the world was made up of four elements and many worshipped the Sun as a god, etc. Those that do basically say that any evidence that goes against their hypothesis is incorrect no matter how much evidence is for it. That's called brainwashing folks

 

[Tenebrous]

Because some people unfortunately take religious texts out of context. The bible's job isn't to dictate science, its more of a historical text. Thousands of years ago people believed that the world was made up of four elements and many worshipped the Sun as a god, etc. Those that do basically say that any evidence that goes against their hypothesis is incorrect no matter how much evidence is for it. That's called brainwashing folks

The history of all of the supernatural occurances discribed within are refuted by science.