My Argument on Teir 2s and Why They Should be Removed.

[BlazeMaster]

For a long time I have been meaning to make this thread, I feel I am fairly known within the community, and that my opinion will be respected. As a veteran player of MCSG I have been here since April, and I have seen MCSG go through ups and downs. But the biggest "down" in my opinion is Teir 2s. Now SixZoSeven made a thread about the thing we all love most not being there, raw Pvp. People have started to use various tactics in MCSG, including "Hit and Run and Fishing Rods" which in the end all they do is postpone a inevitable death. Now I will explain why they feel the need to do this. They are running around, and they see a guy in full iron and a diamond sword, what are they going to do? Run. Why? Because he simply didn't get enough luck in his Teir 2s. So he tries to get an advantage, maybe place some fire, maybe some bow shots, eat a golden apple, stun him with a fishing rod..and why..? Well its for the same reason I almost quit when the chest system on Map 1 changed..it was because of Teir 2s. Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying to bring Beta back, there were many bugs and glitches back then, I am saying to take away the factor of "luck" as much as possible. And Teir 2s are just that, pure luck.

Now for those of you whom weren't here last summer, when refill came, guess what? Everyone with some sort of chest route had Full leather and maybe an iron sword (besides boots, you had to craft those), meaning that everyone was equal, so the outcome of any sort of fight was purely based on "skill" not who had more Teir 2s or who had better luck getting Iron Equips. Now when they added Teir 2s I even made a thread back them, but of course people were blinded by the excitement of something new and weren't seeing how this would affect Pvp. ( here's a link to the thread, took me forever to find this.. http://www.minecraftsurvivalgames.com/threads/chest-loot-for-the-first-map-changed.6434/ ).

Another factor is that there are so many useless chests on maps. Why are they somewhat useless? Because of Teir 2s. Back then how did you define a good chest route from a bad one? The number of chest. Now? The number of Teir 2s. I feel that adding Teir 2s spiced up the game play a bit, but it took away more than is added. And when I saw that they were planning on adding Teir 3s, I was devastated! MCSG is no longer about who can Pvp better, I mean put the Best sword Pvper in Minecraft in MCSG, he will lose if he does not find (A) Teir 2s and (B) If he does not adapt to all the new strategies that have been created (for the most part) by the MCSG community, as they have had to adapt to not always being equal in gear to there opponents. Now of course there is always the of chance that they might get a bit lucky and win, as luck will always be a factor in any game and fight, but adding Teir 2s highly increased that factor. My suggestions? Remove Teir 2s, how of course the damage will still be there, as one can never fully clean a plate, but people wont feel the need to use these tactics. Flint/Steel is great for Team fights, and if you need to escape Via water Fishing rods can help get away from an enemy player, but they can also use it to help get you.

TL;DR
Basically what I am saying is that Teir 2s add an enormous luck factor into the Gamemode, and is what essentially makes people run and not fight sword to sword like they used to. Pvp should be about who can strafe better and think faster, not about who can use Flint and Steel better or whom can use a fishing rod. Hell, maybe people might start using Cakes to stop a player from running, I am not saying to bring MCSG v1 back, I am saying to remove luck as little as possible, and I think in everyone's heart this is what people really mean when they say they miss the "good old days" because they miss when raw Pvp was the winning factor in a fight, not just equipment. I believe Teir 2s should be removed from the Gamemode, maybe make corn chest give cooked food as they do and have a high chance of weapons, but I think that Teir 2s should be removed, because in truth, it is for the best.

 

[Gunnishone]

I agree.

 

[Ninetailefox92]

I do see your point but personally I do like tier 2's as it gives more depth to the games as you need to develop good routes and stuff to get decent gear, I used to play on other servers and it was pretty lame how after about 5 minutes the survivors were all decked in really good gear and it pretty much turns into, whoever has the better team wins, I feel tier 2's at least mean you have to have some idea of the map to gain decent gear

 

[TaiserRY]

For a long time I have been meaning to make this thread, I feel I am fairly known within the community, and that my opinion will be respected. As a veteran player of MCSG I have been here since April, and I have seen MCSG go through ups and downs. But the biggest "down" in my opinion is Teir 2s. Now SixZoSeven made a thread about the thing we all love most not being there, raw Pvp. People have started to use various tactics in MCSG, including "Hit and Run and Fishing Rods" which in the end all they do is postpone a inevitable death. Now I will explain why they feel the need to do this. They are running around, and they see a guy in full iron and a diamond sword, what are they going to do? Run. Why? Because he simply didn't get enough luck in his Teir 2s. So he tries to get an advantage, maybe place some fire, maybe some bow shots, eat a golden apple, stun him with a fishing rod..and why..? Well its for the same reason I almost quit when the chest system on Map 1 changed..it was because of Teir 2s. Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying to bring Beta back, there were many bugs and glitches back then, I am saying to take away the factor of "luck" as much as possible. And Teir 2s are just that, pure luck.

Now for those of you whom weren't here last summer, when refill came, guess what? Everyone with some sort of chest route had Full leather and maybe an iron sword (besides boots, you had to craft those), meaning that everyone was equal, so the outcome of any sort of fight was purely based on "skill" not who had more Teir 2s or who had better luck getting Iron Equips. Now when they added Teir 2s I even made a thread back them, but of course people were blinded by the excitement of something new and weren't seeing how this would affect Pvp. ( here's a link to the thread, took me forever to find this.. http://www.minecraftsurvivalgames.com/threads/chest-loot-for-the-first-map-changed.6434/ ).

Another factor is that there are so many useless chests on maps. Why are they somewhat useless? Because of Teir 2s. Back then how did you define a good chest route from a bad one? The number of chest. Now? The number of Teir 2s. I feel that adding Teir 2s spiced up the game play a bit, but it took away more than is added. And when I saw that they were planning on adding Teir 3s, I was devastated! MCSG is no longer about who can Pvp better, I mean put the Best sword Pvper in Minecraft in MCSG, he will lose if he does not find (A) Teir 2s and (B) If he does not adapt to all the new strategies that have been created (for the most part) by the MCSG community, as they have had to adapt to not always being equal in gear to there opponents. Now of course there is always the of chance that they might get a bit lucky and win, as luck will always be a factor in any game and fight, but adding Teir 2s highly increased that factor. My suggestions? Remove Teir 2s, how of course the damage will still be there, as one can never fully clean a plate, but people wont feel the need to use these tactics. Flint/Steel is great for Team fights, and if you need to escape Via water Fishing rods can help get away from an enemy player, but they can also use it to help get you.

TL;DR
Basically what I am saying is that Teir 2s add an enormous luck factor into the Gamemode, and is what essentially makes people run and not fight sword to sword like they used to. Pvp should be about who can strafe better and think faster, not about who can use Flint and Steel better or whom can use a fishing rod. Hell, maybe people might start using Cakes to stop a player from running, I am not saying to bring MCSG v1 back, I am saying to remove luck as little as possible, and I think in everyone's heart this is what people really mean when they say they miss the "good old days" because they miss when raw Pvp was the winning factor in a fight, not just equipment. I believe Teir 2s should be removed from the Gamemode, maybe make corn chest give cooked food as they do and have a high chance of weapons, but I think that Teir 2s should be removed, because in truth, it is for the best.

I agree completely. every game I normally have like full chain and other players have full iron and diamond sword. it's too easy to get good gear now. Back last summer it was rare to get full iron and a diamond sword before the first refill. now atleast 3 people do that now. it's ridiculous. I've only got a diamond chestplate once and that was last summer when it was even harder to get diamonds. now people do it daily. it's ridiculous.

 

[Honeypoo10]

It's a good debate but I personally think this wont happen.

Reason 1 : ATM they are working on tier 3 chests so it would be ridiculous taking tier 2's out now

Reason 2 : Not enough people would want this to happen as it a BIG risk and isn't even a good idea in my opinion.

Reason 3 : We are now getting an increase of new people starting to play regularly on the MCSG servers and this could repel them as it makes the game alot more different.

 

[ejegun]

You spelt tier wrong.
Now to reading.

 

[BlazeMaster]

I do see your point but personally I do like tier 2's as it gives more depth to the games as you need to develop good routes and stuff to get decent gear, I used to play on other servers and it was pretty lame how after about 5 minutes the survivors were all decked in really good gear and it pretty much turns into, whoever has the better team wins, I feel tier 2's at least mean you have to have some idea of the map to gain decent gear

In these servers after the first 5 minutes people are already decked. Also knowing where chests are around the map is used to be vital, because if someone took your route you could go for more. This is one of the reasons the know SG1 and 2 like the back of my hands, but all the maps added after, I barley know, because I only need to go for my route and then look for people. I mean who even spectates anymore? Spectating was great for looking around a map and finding chests, because back then the more chests you had on your route the better! Now? You can have a route with Two T2 and 3 T1 and have Bette gear than someone with 15 T1's...it is simply unfair. I cannot expect everyone to understand my logic, as many people were not here to experience the good, only the worse, and they have grown to love the worse, and are afraid to let it go, as they do no know how great the good really is.

It's a good debate but I personally think this wont happen.

Reason 1 : ATM they are working on tier 3 chests so it would be ridiculous taking tier 2's out now

Reason 2 : Not enough people would want this to happen as it a BIG risk and isn't even a good idea in my opinion.

Reason 3 : We are now getting an increase of new people starting to play regularly on the MCSG servers and this could repel them as it makes the game alot more different.

If you watched Chads livestream, the Topic came up and he mention considering removing Tier 2s completely, now I wont hold him on that, but it was mentioned and it gives the slightest of hope.

 

[47knight471]

Don't we all love running around with leather armor and iron/stone swords? It'll be so amazing!

 

[MCJackson]

Tier 2's have always been a part of the game here. They were here last summer... I remember going to tier 2's and getting iron or gold armor and diamonds to fight at corn. If you are saying the outsides of maps are under tiered then I agree. On sg1 there are only one or two chests outside corn that are tier 2 and we could use a little bit more. On Breeze Island only a few of the chests at corn are tier 2. I guess with the tier 2's it would just be boring to go through every chest and get the same leather armor and wood sword. It gives some excitement when you stumble upon a chest that has better gear in it.

 

[Hawk62]

You all forget that survival games is in no way garunteed to be fair. That's all part of the fun. If you wan to remove teir 2s because you can get unlucky teams might as well be a bannable offense seeing as that's unfair as well. Remember despite the fact that strategies have change a lot over the past year this is still the SURVIVAL games not the pvp games. I personally like teir 2s though I do hope they are nerfed slightly.

 

[MCJackson]

You all forget that survival games is in no way garunteed to be fair. That's all part of the fun. If you wan to remove teir 2s because you can get unlucky teams might as well be a bannable offense seeing as that's unfair as well. Remember despite the fact that strategies have change a lot over the past year this is still the SURVIVAL games not the pvp games. I personally like teir 2s though I do hope they are nerfed slightly.

Exactly, people forget that this is the survival games and just focus on pvp. Though, it isn't much survival anymore with the abundance of food (which was kind of fixed) and the removal of mobs.

 

[ejegun]

Okay, now after I read this.

I agree with you completely. I remember back then, I am not entirely sure if tiers were already added when I started, boy I didn't even know what chest tiers were until I started foruming. I do remember though that MCSG's chest filling has changed way too much, way too much. Basically now MCSG is not about surviving it's about winning. Like, back then your goal was to survive, now it's to win, and I really hate that.
I can't add anything to what you've said, everything is already in there.

The sad thing about this is if they ask the community the majority is going to say to keep the tiers, because they don't know how gameplay used to be back then.
I think what they should do is nerve the tier 2's, not completely remove them as the majority of the players would wine and complain. And scrap the T3's unless they're completely random (where they are). Max item amount for T2's should be 2 or 3, and there should be a lot less tier 2's. Along with hobo1955 I led the creation of rugged lands, and trust me, I HATE CHEST TIERS in there. The mods that did them did a really bad job and were probably drunk. Map creators should be able to set chest tiers.

TL;DR: I agree, but most players would complain, so sadly it probably won't happen